Marie Osmond Finally Names Her Abuser — And It Changes Everything

To the outside world, Marie Osmond’s life looked like a picture of success, fame, family legacy, and a career built in the spotlight. But behind that image was a past she rarely spoke about, one filled with confusion, fear, and years of emotional weight she carried alone.
In her memoir, she finally begins to confront what happened to her as a child, but the real turning point comes much later when she takes a step she once avoided entirely, naming the person tied to her abuse and rewriting the silence she lived with >> >> for decades. The weight of family expectations. Marie Osmond’s name has been famous for decades, but what a lot of people don’t realize is just how complicated her life was from the very beginning.
Long before the television lights, hit songs, and polished smile, there was a little girl growing up in a world filled with pressure, expectations, and secrets that would follow her for years. Born Olive Marie Osmond on October 13th, 1959 in Ogden, Marie was raised in a massive Mormon household that already stood out from most American families.
She was the second youngest of nine children and the only girl in the entire family. Growing up with eight brothers meant there was never much room for privacy, quiet, or individuality. Life inside the Osmond home moved like a machine and every child had a role to play. >> >> Music sat at the center of everything.
Her parents, Olive and George Osmond, turned the family into a tightly organized performing unit, teaching the children barbershop harmonies from a young age. What started as family singing eventually became the foundation of an entertainment empire. But behind the cheerful image was a household built on discipline and relentless work.
In her memoir, Might as Well Laugh About It Now, Marie later explained how seriously her parents approached the family business. They invested every dollar they could into vocal coaches, dance instructors, and music lessons. Each child had to master an instrument and then help teach the others. Marie was assigned the marimba, even though she hated it.
In the Osmond household, personal preference rarely mattered. The expectation was simple: work hard, perform well, >> >> and keep moving. When the Osmond brothers first rose to fame during the 1960s, Marie stayed mostly in the background. The shy youngest sister wasn’t initially pushed into the spotlight the same way her brothers were.
While the Osmond brothers became teen sensations, Marie watched from the sidelines. But staying out of show business was never really an option in that family. At just 4 years old, she made her television debut on the Andy Williams Show. It was the beginning of a life spent performing for millions, even before she was old enough to fully understand what that meant.
Years later, during an interview with Larry King, Marie admitted that her childhood was far more difficult than people imagined. She remembered asking her parents if she could go outside and play like other kids, only to hear the same response over and over: “No, because work came first.” Recording sessions, rehearsals, and performances always took priority.
>> >> To the public, Marie became known for her bright personality and picture-perfect smile. But keeping up that image came with enormous pressure. Even as a child, she felt responsible for maintaining the family’s flawless reputation. Still, she later said those struggles taught her resilience, believing that growth often comes from surviving difficult experiences rather than easy ones.
For a short period, Marie stepped away from the spotlight. But by the early 1970s, her mother encouraged her to record a solo album. It would become the moment that transformed her from the Osmonds’ little sister into a star in her own right. At the time, though, nobody knew how much emotional pain she was already carrying behind the scenes.
On the surface, her life looked almost magical. The Osmonds were viewed as America’s perfect family, wholesome, talented, clean-cut, and impossibly polished. But privately, Marie was struggling with trauma she had kept hidden since childhood. Although she has never publicly revealed every detail, Marie later shared that she had been mistreated by someone close to the family when she was very young.
She clarified that the person was not a relative, but the experience deeply shaped how she viewed the world. What made it even harder was the feeling that nobody around her recognized what was happening. For years, Marie carried anger toward her mother, struggling to understand how something so serious could go unnoticed.
Only later in adulthood did she begin accepting that parents sometimes miss painful realities unfolding right in front of them. But by then, the emotional damage had already taken root. The trauma affected nearly every part of her life. Marie admitted that for a long time, she associated men with fear and discomfort.
The confusion became so overwhelming that she even questioned her own identity as a young girl. It was an incredibly heavy burden to carry while simultaneously stepping into worldwide fame. Still, Marie refused to let herself disappear beneath the weight of it all. When she began recording music, she made a bold decision that separated her from the rest of the family.
While her brothers leaned heavily into pop and rock music, Marie chose country. That gamble changed everything. In 1973, she released Paper Roses, and the song exploded to number one on the country charts. Suddenly, Marie Osmond was no longer just part of the Osmond family machine.
She had become a major star on her own terms. As her success grew, the family realized they had another opportunity sitting right in front of them. Her brother, Donny Osmond, was already one of the biggest teen idols in the country, and pairing the two siblings together seemed like a guaranteed hit. They were right.
By 1974, Donny and Marie had landed multiple top 10 hits together, and their chemistry quickly became undeniable. But music was only the beginning. In 1975, the siblings launched their own television variety series, Donny and Marie, and it instantly became one of the biggest shows on television. The program turned them into household names.
Even after the original run ended in 1978, the network simply reworked the format into the Osmond Family Hour, >> >> because audiences still couldn’t get enough of them. But behind the bright stage lights and perfectly timed smiles, Marie was quietly falling apart. At just 16 years old, she was already sharing stages with some of the most glamorous celebrities in the world, yet she constantly felt insecure beside them.
In her memoir, she described feeling painfully awkward whenever she stood next to women she considered impossibly beautiful. One moment that stayed with her happened while appearing on the Sonny and Cher Comedy Hour. Meeting Cher completely shattered her confidence. Marie later admitted she felt invisible standing beside someone with such overwhelming presence and charisma.
The feeling only intensified as bigger stars continued appearing on Donny and Marie. Week after week, Marie found herself standing beside women like Farrah Fawcett, Jaclyn Smith, Cheryl Ladd, and Raquel Welch, women who defined beauty standards during the 1970s. No matter how famous she became herself, Marie often felt like she didn’t belong in the same room.
And while the cameras captured glamorous television magic, another darker reality unfolded behind the scenes. Marie dealt with constant unwanted attention from older men during those years. She later spoke openly about several uncomfortable encounters involving male guest stars, including one particularly disturbing moment with Groucho Marx, whom she later described as inappropriate and predatory toward her.
But even that wasn’t the worst part of her experience on the show. At the height of Donny and Marie, television executives became obsessed with Marie’s weight. Never mind the fact that she weighed only 103 lb, producers still labeled her obese and relentlessly pressured her to become thinner. One memory haunted her for years. A studio executive reportedly pulled her aside and humiliated her, telling her she was embarrassing the family because of her appearance.
>> >> The comments devastated her. Marie was still just a teenager, yet she suddenly felt responsible for the jobs of hundreds of people working on the show. The emotional abuse pushed her into dangerous eating habits. She began pretending to eat meals while secretly starving herself. Several days a week, she survived on little more than water mixed with lemon juice, cayenne pepper, and maple syrup.
Even when hunger left her physically too weak to perform dance routines, she still believed she wasn’t thin enough. At the same time, the workload itself was crushing. Child labor protections in entertainment were far looser back then, and Marie regularly worked exhausting 20-hour days. >> >> She and Donny had to memorize endless scripts, rehearse complicated choreography, record songs, and keep up with non-stop production schedules.
It was overwhelming even for seasoned adult performers, let alone teenagers still trying to figure out who they were. For years, Marie kept pushing through exhaustion, insecurity, and emotional pain because that was what the family expected. But eventually, someone would finally enter her life and give her the support she had been missing for so long.
The moment everything started cracking. Growing up as the only girl in a household full of brothers, Marie Osmond spent much of her early life searching for female guidance. Fame surrounded her from childhood, but genuine mentorship was harder to find. Then, during the height of Donny and Marie, she unexpectedly found that support in one of the biggest television legends of all time, Lucille Ball.
When Lucille guest starred on the show, the two connected almost immediately. What started as a professional meeting slowly turned into a real friendship. Away from the cameras, they would sit together playing Scrabble while Lucille shared stories, advice, and hard-earned lessons from decades in Hollywood.
For Marie, it was more than just bonding with a celebrity. It was the kind of female mentorship she had been craving for years. Ironically, one of the biggest decisions of Marie’s career came not long after that friendship began. In the late 1970s, Marie was offered the role of Sandy in Grease, a part that would eventually make Olivia Newton-John an international superstar.
But, Marie turned it down. The reason had less to do with scheduling >> >> and more to do with principle. She struggled with the film’s transformation storyline and disliked the idea that the female lead had to reinvent herself into a bad girl to win approval from a man.
At the time, it probably felt like the right choice. Looking back though, it became one of those major Hollywood what if moments. Unfortunately, that same period also brought one of the biggest public controversies of her early career. In 1978, Marie and her brother, Donny Osmond, sat down for a tense interview with Barbara Walters.
By then, >> >> the Osmonds were already huge stars, but public curiosity about their Mormon faith was growing louder. Critics questioned whether the family’s wholesome image hid more rigid and old-fashioned beliefs beneath the surface. Barbara Walters didn’t avoid the uncomfortable topics.
During the interview, she directly asked Marie whether women were treated as secondary figures within the church. Marie denied that women were considered less important, but her explanation only fueled more criticism. She spoke about households needing a patriarch and suggested that speaking openly on certain matters was traditionally the role of men.
To many viewers, the comments felt outdated even for the late 1970s. Then the conversation became even more uncomfortable. Walters brought up the fact that black members of the Mormon church were barred from holding the priesthood at the time and asked the siblings to explain why. Donny stumbled through an awkward response before ultimately falling back on religious doctrine, while Marie remained largely silent beside him.
The interview damaged their image with many viewers. For a family already viewed by some as overly polished and disconnected from modern culture, the conversation only intensified public criticism. Still, while Marie’s public image was taking hits, her private life was becoming even more chaotic.
For years, audiences saw her as America’s perfect good girl, wholesome, sweet, and carefully controlled. But behind the scenes, her romantic life was far more turbulent than anyone realized. In 1979, at just 20 years old, Marie became engaged to acting student Jeff Clayton.
Within her deeply religious upbringing, engagement was treated as an enormous commitment, not something casual or temporary. Yet despite the seriousness of it all, the relationship collapsed only 2 months later. That breakup marked the beginning of a very different chapter in her personal life. After nearly marrying someone outside the spotlight, Marie suddenly found herself drawn towards some of the biggest celebrity names of the era.
She dated Erik Estrada, the breakout star of CHiPs, and was later linked to Andy Gibb, the younger brother of the Bee Gees. Suddenly, Marie’s life started looking less like the sheltered world audiences associated with the Osmonds and more like a full-blown Hollywood tabloid story. Eventually, though, she decided she wanted stability.
In 1982, Marie married Stephen Lyle Craig, a talented basketball player from Brigham Young University. Their relationship moved quickly and within a year they welcomed their son, Stephen, into the world. For a moment, it genuinely looked like Marie had found balance. Her family life appeared stable and she finally seemed to have the kind of normal happiness that had always escaped her growing up.
But professionally, things were beginning to unravel. By 1984, Marie’s music career had lost momentum. When she released the single Who’s Counting, the response was underwhelming. The song barely cracked the charts, peaking at number 82 and signaling that her once dominant popularity might be fading. For many artists, that kind of public disappointment would have marked the beginning of the end.
Instead, Marie used it as motivation. In 1985, she staged one of the biggest comebacks of her career with the country album There’s No Stopping Your Heart. The project produced two number one country hits and reminded the industry that she was far more than a former child star living off nostalgia. Professionally, she was back on top.
Personally, though, her marriage was falling apart. Despite the importance the Osmond family placed on marriage and faith, Marie and Stephen eventually drifted too far apart to repair the relationship. In 1985, after only 3 years together, they divorced. The breakup deeply affected her, but almost exactly 1 year later, Marie entered another serious relationship.
On October 28th, 1986, she married Brian Blosil at the Mormon Jordan River Temple in South Jordan. Together, Marie and Brian built a large family, raising seven children, two biological and five adopted. From the outside, it looked like Marie had finally achieved the life she always wanted. Career success, marriage, motherhood, and stability.
But privately, she was heading toward one of the darkest periods of her life. After one of her pregnancies, Marie experienced far more than ordinary exhaustion. She battled overwhelming sadness, severe physical fatigue, and frightening episodes of uncontrollable shaking. >> >> Eventually, doctors diagnosed her with postpartum depression.
The experience completely blindsided her. In interviews later on, Marie described moments where the emotional weight became unbearable. At one point, overwhelmed and mentally exhausted, she impulsively got into her car and drove for hours without fully knowing where she was going. It felt less like an escape and more like someone desperately trying to outrun her own collapse.
The physical symptoms became just as terrifying as the emotional ones. Her body would lock into painful muscle spasms, sometimes leaving her unable to even get out of bed. Marie later chronicled the experience in her memoir, Behind the Smile. Looking back, she described the breakdown as the result of a perfect storm, >> >> nonstop work obligations, the demands of motherhood, and years of ignoring her own limits.
Doctors had warned her to slow down, but she pushed forward anyway, convinced she could handle everything on her own. Eventually, the pressure caught up with her in devastating fashion. She recalled collapsing on her kitchen floor in tears, unable to reconcile the polished television personality the world knew with the woman privately unraveling behind closed doors.
As her mental health deteriorated, her career also began slipping further away. By the 1990s, country music had changed dramatically. The industry was shifting toward a grittier, more rebellious style, leaving Marie’s wholesome image feeling increasingly out of step with the times. She continued releasing music, but the hits stopped coming.
Slowly, the reality became impossible to ignore. Her era as a chart-topping recording artist was ending. Searching for a new direction, Marie turned back to the partnership that had once made her a television icon. In 1998, she reunited with Donny for a daytime talk show called Donny and Marie. The goal was simple: recapture the sibling chemistry that audiences had loved decades earlier, but the revival never found the same magic.
Ratings struggled, and behind the scenes, tensions between the siblings became impossible to ignore. During the original 1970s run, Donny had naturally taken charge while Marie followed along. But by the late 1990s, she was no longer willing to play the passive younger sister role. Arguments became so constant that producers and directors reportedly had to step in and mediate disputes between them.
Eventually, Donny admitted he to stop acting controlling, but by then, the damage to the working relationship had already been done. >> >> At the same time, Marie herself was developing a reputation for being difficult on set. Over the years, stories circulated about increasingly demanding behavior during productions.
Crew members reportedly complained about elaborate lighting requests designed to ensure she appeared flawless on camera. Large dressing rooms were allegedly required not just for Marie herself, but also for her family members and even pets. Whether those stories were exaggerated or not, the atmosphere surrounding the show had clearly become strained.
After only two seasons, producers canceled the series. Still, Marie refused to disappear quietly. In 2004, she attempted yet another reinvention by launching a radio program called Marie and Friends. The show leaned heavily into nostalgia and targeted the same loyal audience that had supported her for decades, >> >> but once again, the comeback never materialized.
After only 10 months, the show was canceled. And for Marie Osmond, that period marked the beginning of an even deeper personal and professional unraveling when family rivalry took center stage. By 2006, Marie Osmond’s life seemed to be hitting one rough patch after another. Her attempted comeback projects had stalled out.
Her radio show was gone, and just when it looked like things could not get more difficult, she suddenly found herself hospitalized under frightening circumstances. Because there was no immediate public explanation, speculation exploded almost instantly. Tabloids and gossip outlets rushed to connect the situation to her past struggles with postpartum depression, and before long, rumors spread claiming Marie had attempted to take her own life.
The headlines spiraled fast, but Marie and her team wasted no time pushing back against the narrative. Shortly after leaving the hospital, representatives firmly denied the suicide rumors and explained that her hospitalization had actually been caused by a severe reaction to medication. Still, once public conversations around mental health begin in Hollywood, they rarely disappear completely.
The whispers followed her long after the incident itself faded from the news cycle. Even with all the scrutiny surrounding her, Marie managed to remind audiences why America had connected with her in the first place. In 2007, she joined the cast of Dancing with the Stars >> >> and quickly became one of the season’s biggest fan favorites.
Week after week, viewers rallied behind her as she fought her way to a third-place finish. The journey, however, was far from smooth. One of the most unforgettable moments of the season came when Marie suddenly collapsed live on television immediately after a performance. The incident shocked viewers and instantly became one of the most replayed moments in the show’s history.
Thankfully, she recovered quickly, but the moment highlighted just how physically demanding the competition had become. Then came the sibling twist. A couple of seasons later, her brother Donny Osmond joined the show himself and ended up winning the entire competition. It became yet another chapter in the lifelong sibling rivalry that had followed the Osmonds since childhood.
Still, the experience brought genuine positives into Marie’s life. The constant rehearsals and intense training helped her lose nearly 50 lb. Unlike the unhealthy pressure she endured during her teenage television years, this transformation came from a completely different place. This time, the motivation was personal health rather than industry cruelty.
With heart disease running in her family, Marie viewed the weight loss as an important lifestyle change rather than an attempt to satisfy impossible beauty standards. But peace never seemed to last long in her world. By 2009, Marie found herself at the center of another major public conflict. This time involving someone who had been part of her life almost since the beginning of her career, long-time manager Karl Engemann.
Their partnership had lasted 35 years, making the split feel especially dramatic. According to Marie, the relationship deteriorated after she allegedly discovered financial misconduct involving her money. The accusations stunned people inside the entertainment industry because Engemann had been viewed as one of her closest professional allies for decades.
The fallout quickly turned ugly. Engemann denied wrongdoing and responded with legal action of his own, suing Marie over money he claimed he was still owed. What started as a private business disagreement soon became a bitter public dispute filled with accusations from both sides. >> >> Eventually, the matter moved into private arbitration, allowing both parties to settle things away from the spotlight.
For a moment, it seemed like the storm had finally calmed. Then Marie stepped into one of the most personal and unexpectedly progressive moments of her public life. In 2009, after her daughter Jessica came out as lesbian, Marie publicly voiced her full support for her. Considering Marie’s deeply religious background and earlier controversies surrounding Mormon beliefs, many people were surprised by how openly supportive she became.
For Marie, the issue was not political theater or public relations. It was about her child. She spoke about wanting Jessica and members of the LGBTQ community as a whole to live full, happy lives and achieve their dreams without shame. The stance marked a noticeable shift from the more conservative image many people had associated with her for decades.
As the 2010s began, Marie once again turned toward television in hopes of rebuilding momentum. In 2012, she launched her own daytime variety series, Marie, on the Hallmark Channel. Although the show did not run for years, it became a surprisingly strong success for the network, drawing record-setting viewership numbers.
Marie also served as executive producer, giving her far more creative control than she had enjoyed in many earlier projects. Even though the series eventually ended, the experience seemed to reignite her confidence. Not long afterward, Marie began guest hosting on The Talk alongside personalities like Sara Gilbert, Leah Remini, and Sharon Osbourne.
Her chemistry with the panel worked well enough that by 2019, she officially joined the show as a permanent co-host. That same year, Marie shared one of the most traumatic stories of her life during an emotional episode of the program. She revealed that, at just 16 years old, she had survived a devastating car accident after blacking out behind the wheel.
The crash was horrific. Marie slammed into the steering wheel so violently that she nearly lost an eye, and the impact bent the metal frame itself. Her mother, who had been riding in the passenger seat, suffered catastrophic injuries after hitting the windshield, including collapsed lungs. At the hospital, the two were separated, and doctors warned Marie that her mother likely would not survive the night.
The guilt overwhelmed her. As a terrified teenager sitting alone in a hospital room, she became convinced she had caused her mother’s death. During that emotional period, Marie later said she experienced what she believed was a spiritual vision involving her grandfather. According to her account, the experience brought her an unexpected sense of peace and reassured her that her mother would survive.
Against the odds, she did. For Marie, the moment became deeply tied to her faith and forever changed the way she viewed life, death, and the possibility of an afterlife. But while things appeared stable on the surface during her time on The Talk, tension behind the scenes soon became impossible to ignore. After only one season as a permanent co-host, Marie shocked viewers by announcing she was leaving the show.
The timing immediately raised eyebrows because it came shortly after long-time executive producer John Redmond also departed the series. Publicly, everyone involved maintained a calm and supportive tone. Sharon Osbourne even posted supportive comments online praising Marie’s contributions to the panel.
According to Marie, the decision came down to family and lifestyle priorities. >> >> At 60 years old, she explained that she finally wanted more time with her husband, children, and grandchildren after decades of non-stop work. She spoke openly about reaching a stage in life where family mattered more than the exhausting pace of daily television production.
But not everyone believed the explanation. Almost immediately, rumors surfaced claiming her exit was far less voluntary than it appeared. Online, fans began dissecting interactions between Marie and several co-hosts, particularly Sharon Osbourne and Sheryl Underwood. Supporters of Marie flooded social media with complaints, arguing that she was frequently interrupted or talked over during discussions.
Behind-the-scenes reports only added fuel to the speculation. According to insider accounts published by entertainment outlets, tension reportedly developed between Marie and some of the veteran panel members almost from the beginning. Sources claimed Sharon and Sheryl were unhappy with Marie’s presence on the show and allegedly pushed producers to remove her from the panel.
Some reports even suggested the situation became so intense that threats of resignation were made behind closed doors if Marie remained on the show. Meanwhile, another co-host, Carrie Ann Inaba, was reportedly supportive of Marie and wanted her to stay. The conflicting alliances painted a picture of a deeply divided set operating beneath the polished daytime TV smiles viewers saw on screen.
Neither Sharon nor Sheryl publicly confirmed the rumors, though Sharon later made comments that many fans interpreted as dismissive when discussing the show moving forward without Marie. Viewers had already sensed something was wrong long before the headlines started appearing. Many fans believed Marie often struggled to fit into the louder, more confrontational style of discussion dominating the panel.
Compared to the sharper personality surrounding her, she came across as softer, quieter, and increasingly isolated. According to additional insider reports, Marie reportedly disliked being reduced to a stereotypical goody-two-shoes role because of her religious beliefs and conservative lifestyle. By the time rumors emerged that producers might replace her, she was supposedly no longer shocked by the possibility.
Looking back, the situation only added to the growing reputation of The Talk as a program filled with behind-the-scenes conflict, especially after former host Julie Chen later admitted her own departure from the show had been complicated, many viewers began wondering whether the real drama on The Talk had always been happening off camera rather than on it.
Marie Osmond finally names her abuser and it changes everything. In her memoir behind the smile, Marie Osmond reflected on a painful truth that took years for her to fully understand. Abuse does not always come in one obvious form. Some wounds arrive loudly and violently while others settle in quietly, leaving damage that lingers for years beneath the surface.
But among everything she endured, the deepest scars came from sexual abuse during her childhood. For decades, Marie carried that trauma in silence. It became a secret so buried that even the people closest to her, including her own brothers, had no idea what she had gone through. It was only after becoming a mother herself that she finally found the strength to speak openly about being sexually assaulted as a child.
Looking back, she described a terrifying pattern that followed her through those experiences. >> >> Every incident happened in places her parents trusted or around people they believed were safe and each time fear kept her trapped in silence. She was threatened and warned never to tell anyone, made to believe that speaking out would destroy her family and cost them everything they had built.
Marie later clarified that the abuse did not come from a family member or someone who remained in her life long term. But even after the abuser disappeared, the emotional damage stayed behind. She admitted that the details themselves mattered less than the lasting effects trauma leaves on a person’s spirit, confidence, and ability to function normally day after day.
The damage was mostly invisible to everyone else. On the outside, she was part of one of America’s most famous entertainment families, smiling in front of cameras and audiences. But privately, she was carrying emotional wounds that shaped how she saw herself and the world around her. When people later questioned why she never reported the abuse at the time, Marie explained that she came from a generation where subjects like that were rarely discussed openly.
Silence was often expected, especially when families feared shame or public humiliation. She also believed that telling her loved ones would only hurt them without changing what had already happened. So, instead, she tried to bury the pain and move forward with her life.
But, trauma rarely disappears just because someone tries to outgrow it. Even decades later, Marie admitted she still struggled with the emotional aftermath of what happened to her as a child. One of the hardest things for her to fully accept was the idea that being victimized did not mean she had done something wrong herself. That realization stayed with her for years as she tried to balance life in the public eye with a past she was still healing from privately.
Then, in 2019, while co-hosting The Talk, Marie opened up about another deeply personal consequence of that abuse. She revealed that when she was around eight or nine years old, she believed she might be gay. But, as she later explained, those feelings were rooted in trauma rather than identity. The abuse had left her so fearful and disgusted by men that she instinctively distrusted them and wanted nothing to do with them.
That confusion also fueled years of body image struggles. She remembered questioning herself whenever she noticed women, wondering if those thoughts meant something about her sexuality. At the time, she did not yet understand that her mind was reacting to severe emotional trauma rather than revealing her identity.
Ironically, one of the things that helped her heal was growing up surrounded by the men in her own family. Being the only girl in the Osmonds gave her a different perspective over time. Watching the way her brothers and father treated her with love and protection slowly helped rebuild her trust in men. Eventually, she realized the fear and confusion she carried were connected to what had happened to her, not necessarily to who she was as a person.
Years later, during an interview with Mehmet Oz, Marie spoke about that dark chapter one final time with a sense of closure. By then, she revealed that the people responsible for abusing her were no longer alive.